Serious (well as serious as any videogame question can be) question about PS4 vs XB1
  • I really don't intend for this to be a system wars thread but I have a question for my fellow gamer friends. I consider all of us on here to be big gamers. Whether at the moment we have as much time to play as we use to or not we have a desire to game. So with that I have to ask.

    Does resolution and/or frame rate matter to you and would you make the same choice over again on the console you buy first or the only console you roll with?

    Case in point Kojima just came out and said that MGSV on XBO is 720p/60fps and on PS4 it is 1080p/60fps. We all know about tomb raider being at 30fps unlocked on xbox one and 60fps unlocked on the PS4. Theif is 720p on XB1 and 1080p on ps4. Early on it seemed that some games like AC4 were better on PS4 but I chalked that up to launch titles but the trend cerrtainly points to 1080p for PS4 and Xbox one hopefully being 900p standard in the end, but until then do you find harder to buy games knowing there is a superior version out there?

  • Kojima is a narcissistic asshole. I wouldn't put it past him to openly favor the PS4 just cause it's a Japanese console. If there's one person in the industry that I would do it, it would be him. I can't stand him, his games, and pretty much anything that comes out of his crooked mouth. He treats everything he's involved with to be the second coming of Christ while shitting on everything he isn't a part of. Fuck him and his shitty movies pretending to be games.

    That said, all of the facts point for it to be true. The games over the past few months have been at a higher res on the PS4 and that's pretty disappointing seeing that I just spent $500 on this machine.

    On the flip side, I didn't chose the XBO for power. I read the initial reports and read all the spec reviews and the warnings on Kotaku, reddit and neogaf. I knew going into it that it's not on par with the PS4. I chose it cause of the exclusive games (halo, gears, forza, titanfall) and it's what my friends were buying. I'll never see the same game running on the PS4 and XBO side by side, so to me ignorance is bliss sorta. I really don't care enough to watch comparison videos either. To me it's just not that important. I think things will get better for the XBO as teams have more time to optimize for the console. You're still in the launch window here. These guys haven't had their dev kits for too long. I've read from a bunch of developers that the XBO has the best upscaling software on the market and as they learn to use it the game will look better and better.

    Framerate on the otherhand is a big deal to me. I'm glad that these games coming out are at or near 60fps. I'd glady sacrifice some resolution for a solid framerate. I wish I didn't have to, but I wish for a lot of things in life and this is pretty low on my list.

    Give it time. I can tell you're bothered by this based on the stuff we've talked about in other chats. If it's that big of a deal than stick with your PS4. It's why you bought it!
  • I'm actually not bothered about it at all, just bored and wanted something to talk about LOL. I am bothered a little because they want to charge 100 dollars more (and even taking kinect out you have more of an overcharge).

    Honestly, half the reason I got both platforms was to be able to get the better version, the other reason being exclusives as you have mentioned.

    The cool thing for xbox so far is that they have crushed sony out the gate. I have been loving Forza, KI3, Max, Titanfall, and Dead Rising.

    I will say the most and really only disappointing thing for me so far has been kinect. I'd love for microsoft to come to my house and set it up so that it actually signs the right people in, doesn't sign people out and flip them randomly, and actually work when I say xbox on.
  • The voice part of kinect has worked great for me. 9/10 times it fires up first try. I went back and deleted Stacy's kinect info and had her set it up again and it's working perfect for her too. I saw that in the settings there was a kinect voice setup tool or something. Did you try that? It was something with teh audio, I don't remember the name.

    The hand gestures blow tho. Trying to use your hands to navigate Netflix, the dash or anything else is just a hassle. I was excited to use it since they said it works so much better than Kinect 1. So far I don't notice a difference.

    Stacy has used the fitness app tho and she said it tracked her real well. I haven't tried it cause I'm lazy.
  • Trish liked the xbox fitness when she did it. I just got T25 and I wish that it was on there so that it did it all dance central style.

    I've tried to setup and resetup. I lose patience with it. Like in Killer Instinct it keeps signing me in and out when playing with ethan and it will do it mid match. I hear that the longer you keep correcting it the better it gets. I still think it has to do with the room I am in (brightness wise) and post patch I just set it back up to see if it is better. We will see. I just find it funny that it wan'ts to always sign in my one daughter and it works flawlessly for her but not for anyone else.
  • I normally avoid topics like this like the plague, as I deal with it every day at work and some really fucking stupid people, but you guys here aren't those people, so I'll weigh in with my thoughts, even though they don't mean anything, it's just an opinion after all.

    I know some are going to think I'm bias give my preference and work obviously, but I'll be honest and objective, as I have to weigh in with this stuff everyday.

    Q: Does resolution and/or frame rate matter to you and would you make the same choice over again on the console you buy first or the only console you roll with?

    A: Personally no, not all that much. Would I be saying the same thing if the roles were reversed and the PS4 games were the ones with lower resolution? Honestly, yes. I don't have any intention on getting a PS4 anytime soon, not because of any reason other than there's no exclusives I care about on it at the moment. Sure I'd LIKE to play inFamous and stuff, and I know it'll do great when Uncharted and God of War comes, but I've never cared about many Sony exclusives. Just my personal preference.

    The reason I was GOING to get a PS4 initially was for their previous exclusives like Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, etc, but those are now multiplatform so I'd prefer to get it on my Xbox, even if it's the 'lesser' version. Hell, I did this one 360 already, where Final Fantasy 13 was supposedly much better on PS3, but I got it on 360 and enjoyed it and never once thought "I wish I got this one PS3 instead". Sure there are time where that does happen, look how shitty the Skyrim PS3 port was, and though I wasn't one of those people (I had it on 360), I'm sure it'll happen in the future at some point.

    People these days are so obsess over graphics, but now even more-so the numbers rather than the visuals themselves. Because on paper 1080p/720p is a number, they equate that to a visual in their mind. This is fueled by the vile hate online that I can't even stand to read anymore.

    Would I like it if Tomb Raider DE was 1080p/60fps to be just like the PS4 version? Sure. Does it dissuade me from the sale on Xbox One? No. And no, that's not because of my favoritism (not complete bias), as the visuals in game is going to determine how good something looks, not just the resolution and fps, though yes, they help.

    A good example of this is Assassin's Creed Black Flag. Played it on 360 where it looked good (impressive for last gen really), then I played it on Xbox One and was surprised with how substantial the increase in visual fidelity was. Technically it's only in 900p on XO compared to 1080p on PS4. So? The game looked fantastic, played well, and most importantly, the game world looked good. Obviously a game with shitty and low rez textures isn't going to look as good when compared, but you get the idea.

    This isn't new. Remember the drama when Halo 3 released? People made the same stink because it was 640p and not 720p. It's fucking numbers that MOST (not all) fanboys use for fuel to their vile fires.
  • I remember when the Forza / Gran Turismo war was new and someone did a side by side comparison of the two, taking a poll of which one people thought looked better. The Gran Turismo one won by a landslide, only for people to find out he lied with the game labels and people were voting for Forza (labelled as Gran Turismo). Fanboys lost their shit. Good times had.

    Again, sure I'd love it if my XO games were running the native 1080p/60fps like some PS4 games, though if this info wasn't given out, I highly doubt many people would be able to tell the difference. Sure, side by side you might notice the small differences, but even with all the side by sides, I find it difficult to natively tell a large difference. Sure, if you stare at a video or screen shot of side by sides you'll try and pick things out, but normally playing the game I highly doubt it. I'd love to have videos of both (exact footage) without any button prompts and show them to people to see what they actually think of both without any bias. I bet you most wouldn't be able to tell much difference.

    Fuzz is right about Kojima for the most part. I'll let it be known, I'm a huge Metal Gear fan, so I actually enjoy his games (though less recently since 4), but he's always been outspoken about his love for the Sony hardware. Maybe Sony gives them better SDKs, maybe he just understands the architecture better (his games do look visually impressive), maybe he has a bias for a Japanese company, who knows.

    Q: do you find harder to buy games knowing there is a superior version out there?

    A: I think this is part of the problem. If these numbers of resolution and fps weren't given, would people still think this way? I would still feel this way if the tables were turned and XO had the "better" versions, but I hate to think of it that way.

    Sure, you could take this as being defensive as I enjoy my Xbox, but I'm being completely honest. I wish the focus on these numbers weren't so prevalent because it really isn't what matters. Are you buying, or not buying, a game because of its resolution or fps? No, you're buying it for the experience, story, whatever.

    A lot of people forget that this comes down to the devs as well. Yes, hardware plays a part obviously, but people make it out to be like the XO can't do 1080p/60fps, Forza says otherwise. Really, it'll come down to time and exclusives. Like Fuzz said, these systems are so new that devs need to learn how to work with them to be more efficient. Again, I'm not using this as a defending point for the XO, but it's how launch always goes for the first year or two. Look back at the PS3 development. Look how long it took for ports to not suck ass compared to 360 and for the exclusives to really show how good the system itself was.

    XO is on the other side of that now. Will it change in the future? Absolutely. Just like PS3 had shitty ports and devs had a hard time learning it, it looks like it's now XO's turn for something similar. Dev's havn't learned how to tap the eSRAM which in the future could be a big game changer. Who knows, but I'm hoping.

    I have a PS3/Wii/WiiU/3DS. Do I ever play them? Not really aside from exclusives. Even if I wanted a PS4 right now and had one, I'd still be getting the XO versions. I like my friends I play with, I like that it does more than just games, I like my achievements (which I still find odd that I don't give a shit about trophies), among other reasons.
  • I have a report I do daily for work and one of the questions that I ask the people in the stores is "In your opinion what is the best selling feature of the PS4?". At first I really didn't like having to ask this, as it takes the focus away from what I do daily in stores for work, but now I actually like asking it. Reason being, they either don't have an answer, or have to think quite hard about it (most answers are usually the exclusive games). I ask the same question about XO and get varied answers usually quite quickly. Maybe I'm reading into it too much, but just some insight that I see on a daily basis.

    Will I get a PS4 eventually? Absolutely, there's just no exclusives big enough that I care about for it yet (nor can see anytime soon, so I hope E3 has some surprises). When I have it I'll still be getting XO versions of games for reasons listed above that are on both.

    Q:I'm actually not bothered about it at all, just bored and wanted something to talk about LOL. I am bothered a little because they want to charge 100 dollars more (and even taking kinect out you have more of an overcharge).

    A: I get this daily as well. Yes, most people are going to think the extra $100 is for Kinect, which obviously it part of it, but a lot also forget about the TV capabilities and other things it does more than just gaming as well. Should they have priced it $399.99 to boast "Look, ours is the same price and you get more"? Yup, missed opportunity to position themselves as they already need to start going uphill.

    I know most people think Kinect is just waving your arms and dancing, but it's obvious that it's built into the core of the system now. Voice commands are something I use a LOT more than even I thought I would. I've not had any issues with the setup or it working like some do. Something a lot of people forget too is that because Kinect is in the box, devs now know that EVERY XO owner has one. this is a big deal going forward, as they can now add Kinect features knowing that everyone can theoretically use them. On 360 it was a gamble adding Kinect features (or Kinect only games), knowing only a fraction of the market had one. We're already seeing this in a lot of the XO games and CAN be turned off or not used if you really don't want to, but it's there for those of us that do. Forza head tracking, Battlefield voice commands and head tracking, Dead Rising voice commands, etc.

    Rather than Sony coming out and saying what they do well and makes them good, they've gone to an 'opposite of Xbox' approach instead. Obviously this worked for them at E3 but I've yet to see them make a compelling argument to why they are better.

    While most think that resolution and fps make the "best version", while many don't factor in the cool stuff some games are doing with Kinect, Smartglass, and the Impulse Triggers as well. The Smartglass function for Black Flag and Battlefield especially were amazing.

    I love talking about this kind of stuff, but it usually ends up in stupid comments and blind fanboyism debates. I know that won't happen here, which is why I wrote out my thoughts. Also, wow, holy wall of text.
  • @Variation - well said.

    @Wooze - Good discussion man!
  • Thanks for all that variation.

    I have to say that resolution especially 900p vs 1080p makes to me no difference at all. 720p to 1080p side by side obviously is a clairty issue but again plays nothing into actual gameplay.

    I do have to disagree about fps though especially in sports games, third person adventure, and shooters. I'm pretty sure that almost anyone aside from my girlfriend who claims ignorance to anything with minutia as it pertains to hd or sound would feel the difference. Now the question becomes is 30fps in those situtations playable and I think it is, but clearly 60fps makes for a smoother/faster experience.

    What I do wish and maybe kinect sports rivals won't be too late to the party is that the system launched with something that sold people on kinect as a gaming unit. It seems like microsoft as compared to say nintendo is more like we give people these tools they need to make use of them, vs saying here is what we can do to perfection and look at how much word of mouth you can get by doing it like we do.

    You and fuzz have definitely hit on the one point that matters above all else, is my experience fun? Did I get entertained for the time I wanted to be? If yes, than mission accomplished.

    My experience so far on xbox has been a mixed bag but the one place that my experience has been almost a resounding "FUCK YEA!" is playing games. I really am enjoying playing Forza and Killer Instinct. Dead Rising 3 was a fricken blast to get through and level cap, and titanfall while of course getting stupid amounts of pub was 10x more enjoyable then I thought (I'm not a huge competitive player).

    Often times I think I get sad because it seems like at least online and maybe that is the problem, people care more about tearing a game apart than actually enjoying to play games. As much as I love technical discussions it seems to take away the magic of being transported into a situation I wouldn't normally be able to be in.
  • @wooze "Often times I think I get sad because it seems like at least online and maybe that is the problem, people care more about tearing a game apart than actually enjoying to play games. As much as I love technical discussions it seems to take away the magic of being transported into a situation I wouldn't normally be able to be in."

    That's it right there. People focus so much on the negative that it tends to push me away from what is an amazing experience. I sat on Darksiders 2 for over a year because of negative things I read on it. Now that I'm like 16 hours in I am really wishing I didn't wait this long. It's an amazing game. Stupid reviewers.
  • The Theif dev just confirmed 900p for XBO and 1080p for PS4

    Both locked at 30fps
  • I think it's ridiculous that a machine that I paid $500 for in 2014 cannot run games at 1080p/60fps. That's a pretty easy standard to hit for even a moderately priced PC that you could put together for not much north of that $500.

    Yes, it's all about the gameplay, and of course there are things that the new hardware does that the old cannot, most likely involving infrastructure and things like that. But the cost of buying that system was still $500 - and that does not seem to get you the level of horsepower that you'd come to expect.

    Console debuts were usually hit with some generational in-betweeners that didn't look that great, but the things they executed on were seen as above par for PC performance. The PS4 is hitting about par, let's say, but the XBO is not.

    It's making pretty games on my TV, and I'm happy for that. But 1080p/60 should be the lowest possible res/framerate that any game aims for, especially considering I paid $500 for that hardware.
  • 500 dollars definitely seems a bit much especially now that consoles seem to be going to off the shelf parts these days. A radeon 7770 is only like 114 dollars these days and those are prices to us not to distributors. Hell even the PS4 at 400 you would expect a little more punch.
  • Yeah, that's what I mean. And I know I'm paying a premium for certain things, like the Kinect and having an integrated experience, but if I built a new PC that couldn't run games 1080p/60, I'd have goofed pretty hard.
  • Could you really get a PC that does 1080p at 60fps for around $500? Man I don't know about that. I am PC dumb when it comes to gaming, but I just bought a card for about $100 that can't run Saints Row 4.

    Don't forget that the XBO is doing 1080p, but it's just scaled. It looks damn good. Ryse at 900p scaled to 1080p is the best looking game I've ever seen.

    I know I come off as a huge Xbox fanboy (and I am) but I was really just trying to stress that we are only a few months into the console life. It's disappointing that the XBO isn't performing at that level, but I am going take the wait and see approach. If we're still having this discussion with the games out this fall then we may see this continue through all of this gen. Which, like you said is pretty ridiculous for a brand new $500 machine.

  • Also fuck kojima
  • Well there really is no argument that the PS4 is more powerful. Hell I think all the stats came out and it is actually %50 more raw power. So it will be the lead console and it will run easier and more efficiently.

    Just like last gen how nearly all mutliplat games were better on the xbox that has just flip flopped this time around. As a person who loves my xbox and my xbox experience with friends that is disappointing because I will will at least when I have the choice go for the best version (unless multiplayer is envolved).

    I believe and see no reason why a. games won't be competent at the very least (and even the rest of the time) and b. that first party games will look spectacular.

    The biggest question is the ESRAM. Microsoft if touting it as the equalizer and the rest of the community is basically saying it is a bottleneck.

    Time will tell.

    Also fuzz if you spent 100 dollars on a card and couldn't run Saints Row 4 then I think something is wrong. What card did you get?

  • Just happened to see this.

    "While the GTX 750 Ti is a midrange GPU, early benchmarks have shown excellent performance across a range of games. In GameSpot's own testing the card ran the likes of Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite at over 60fps on high settings. It also ran the beta of the new mech-based shooter Titanfall at 58fps at 1080p with 2XAA on, a feat not even accomplished by the Xbox One."
  • I'd like to point out to me this proves that both companies kinda fucked us over for profits. The one nice thing about console gaming has almost always been getting hardware cheaper than building a new pc counterpart and it usually outshinning the pc. The difference now is that pc hardware has accelerated so fast that will be impossible moving forward IMO. They both should have at least given us machines that are twice as powerful as what they did for 400 bucks and 500 bucks.
  • Agreed RE: Fuck Kojima. Dude sucks.

    I can't build a new PC for $500 that would do every new game at that rate, but my pretty old PC, worth much less than $500, can do a lot of games at 1080p. I usually have to turn down AA or AF, but 1080p is the resolution that I run basically everything at. The framerate hovers in the neighborhood of 30, but I'm also using a 6-year-old graphics card.

    I just think that 1080p/60 should be the bare minimum that any console should aim for. They're a static development environment with a very specifically known set of specs. I don't know if it's underpowered hardware (my guess for both systems) or bad early development, but I think it's annoying.
  • @wooze pretty sure it's the ram. It's a "extra parts PC" that Randy built for me. But that kinda proves my point I think. It's not just one component that determines the quality. Now I would have to buy ram and possibly upgrade other things to run games at desired settings. If I am over $100 with one piece, it'll easily climb over $500 I'd think.

    Again, PC gaming dumb. I really have no desire to learn or upgrade anything.
  • I actually went round and round with this pre-launch in my brain trying to decide what i really wanted to do. Technically, speaking starting from scratch you would spend over a little over 500 dollars at the moment. The one thing that does get you that a steambox would fix is paying 100 dollars for windows. You could buy ram, mobo, and a new card for 500 dollars. So if you had a hdd, case, ample power supply you would be there.

    Personally I am waiting for a steambox that fits my needs (If I ever go pc). The thing is to me I have always been primarily a console gamer. I love consoles. I love the memories I have attached to them.
  • Yea the steambox is a great option for sure. The days of me saying I have to use a console cause of my surround sound and TV are over. Hell, my PC can connect to my HT no problem and I can use a 360 controller. Those features and teh steam sales make PC gaming a total option.

  • Not to mention it will be so nice to be able to just upgrade a video card when ready.
  • I am loving my new (still new to me) gaming PC.

    It's one of the reasons I don't own a PS4 (and am holding off on a PS4)
  • Steam just recently announced the release of Ikaruga. Man I loved that game. I can only imagine how horrible I would be at it now considering how long it too me to be horrible at it back when I played it on my Gamecube.

    Oh, and graphics between the XBO and PS4 don't matter to me because there is no way I'm guying an Xbox product. Still bitter after all these years. You say "fuck Kojima" and I say "fuck Xbox."
  • I bought the 360 version of Ikaruga to see what the fuss was about cause I never played it. I have one achievement in that game. It's crazy how hard it is. It's to the point where it's not fun!

    I don't remember the details of your anger with MS. Was it the rrod and the way the customer service handled it?

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